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Comfed · 06-13-2022, 09:08 AM

(06-13-2022, 06:57 AM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote: I’m assuming that the roles and responsibilities of the Ministry of Media will be passed onto other ministries within the South Pacific?

Not necessarily.

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Republic of Lansoon (Pacifica)

**Belschaft** · 06-13-2022, 12:08 PM

(06-12-2022, 11:33 PM)Comfed Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 10:45 PM)Farengeto Wrote: Just for the purpose of being legally unambiguous here, I would suggest some kind of resolution with this amendment making it clear what happens with shutting down the ministry and the dismissal of the minister. (e.g. The minister being dismissed immediately after its passage vs serving out the remainder of the term.)

Best not to have a defunct ministry floating around in a legally ambiguous state for the rest of the term if we can avoid it.

Agreed, something along the lines of this:
Upon the passage of this amendment, the Ministry of Media will be dissolved in its entirety and the Minister of Media will be removed from office.

I consider this unnecessary for the reasons stated by Jebediah - Article Six, Clause Ten is the sole reference to a Ministry of Media in our laws. Once it is removed there is no legal basis for such a Ministry or a Minister to exist.

(06-13-2022, 06:57 AM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote: I’m assuming that the roles and responsibilities of the Ministry of Media will be passed onto other ministries within the South Pacific?

Why?

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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***BlockBuster2K43*** · 06-13-2022, 12:22 PM

(06-13-2022, 12:08 PM)Belschaft Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 11:33 PM)Comfed Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 10:45 PM)Farengeto Wrote: Just for the purpose of being legally unambiguous here, I would suggest some kind of resolution with this amendment making it clear what happens with shutting down the ministry and the dismissal of the minister. (e.g. The minister being dismissed immediately after its passage vs serving out the remainder of the term.)

Best not to have a defunct ministry floating around in a legally ambiguous state for the rest of the term if we can avoid it.

Agreed, something along the lines of this:
Upon the passage of this amendment, the Ministry of Media will be dissolved in its entirety and the Minister of Media will be removed from office.

I consider this unnecessary for the reasons stated by Jebediah - Article Six, Clause Ten is the sole reference to a Ministry of Media in our laws. Once it is removed there is no legal basis for such a Ministry or a Minister to exist.

(06-13-2022, 06:57 AM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote: I’m assuming that the roles and responsibilities of the Ministry of Media will be passed onto other ministries within the South Pacific?

Why?

Oh, okay. So any activity or tasks performed by the Ministry of Media will cease to exist and no longer be used/updated? So the Southern Journal will cease to exist by that logic.

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BlockBuster2K43

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Killer · 06-13-2022, 01:07 PM

Why don't we add a clause, either temporarily or permanently, for continuation of activities of Ministry of Media under an office similar to Office of World Assembly Legislation until we have an alternative, if required?

**Belschaft** · 06-13-2022, 01:33 PM

(06-13-2022, 12:22 PM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote:
(06-13-2022, 12:08 PM)Belschaft Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 11:33 PM)Comfed Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 10:45 PM)Farengeto Wrote: Just for the purpose of being legally unambiguous here, I would suggest some kind of resolution with this amendment making it clear what happens with shutting down the ministry and the dismissal of the minister. (e.g. The minister being dismissed immediately after its passage vs serving out the remainder of the term.)

Best not to have a defunct ministry floating around in a legally ambiguous state for the rest of the term if we can avoid it.

Agreed, something along the lines of this:
Upon the passage of this amendment, the Ministry of Media will be dissolved in its entirety and the Minister of Media will be removed from office.

I consider this unnecessary for the reasons stated by Jebediah - Article Six, Clause Ten is the sole reference to a Ministry of Media in our laws. Once it is removed there is no legal basis for such a Ministry or a Minister to exist.

(06-13-2022, 06:57 AM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote: I’m assuming that the roles and responsibilities of the Ministry of Media will be passed onto other ministries within the South Pacific?

Why?

Oh, okay. So any activity or tasks performed by the Ministry of Media will cease to exist and no longer be used/updated? So the Southern Journal will cease to exist by that logic.

Why would it cease to exist? What is stopping someone from publishing an edition of the Southern Journal, SPINN, TSP Monthly News, TSP Times, etc etc whenever they feel like it?

You don't need a Ministry of Media to write a newspaper.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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Jebediah · 06-13-2022, 04:08 PM

(06-13-2022, 01:07 PM)Killer Wrote: Why don't we add a clause, either temporarily or permanently, for continuation of activities of Ministry of Media under an office similar to Office of World Assembly Legislation until we have an alternative, if required?

The whole point of this bill is to get rid of the Ministry permanently because the activities of the Ministry of Media are, depending on how nice you are, irrelevant to non existent. The current Minister was elected on a platform of abolishing the Ministry as soon as possible. I don't see any point in making a temporary office to continue said activities when we clearly never plan to have the government run these activities ever again, and any projects that people actually want to work on can be continued as a private project.

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im_a_waffle1 · 06-13-2022, 05:31 PM

I motion that the Chair waive the mandatory debate period and bring this resolution to a vote as allowed under Article 2 Section 7 of the Legislative Procedure Act. It is highly likely that this resolution will pass, since when you combine the percentage of votes that Belschaft and Jebediah- two candidates with very similar campaigns- received in the Minister of Media election, you would end up with almost 75%, which is well over the amount needed to modify the Charter. Factor in that the majority of people who voted for Belschaft or Jebediah as a second choice will most likely vote For on this proposed amendment, you are looking at a very high chance of this resolution passing in a landslide.

It is also unlikely that the debate period will serve the purpose as mandated in law, as there is not much- if anything at all- to modify in this resolution.

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(This post was last modified: 06-13-2022, 05:31 PM by im_a_waffle1.)

Comfed · 06-13-2022, 05:58 PM

(06-13-2022, 05:31 PM)im_a_waffle1 Wrote: I motion that the Chair waive the mandatory debate period and bring this resolution to a vote as allowed under Article 2 Section 7 of the Legislative Procedure Act. It is highly likely that this resolution will pass, since when you combine the percentage of votes that Belschaft and Jebediah- two candidates with very similar campaigns- received in the Minister of Media election, you would end up with almost 75%, which is well over the amount needed to modify the Charter. Factor in that the majority of people who voted for Belschaft or Jebediah as a second choice will most likely vote For on this proposed amendment, you are looking at a very high chance of this resolution passing in a landslide.

It is also unlikely that the debate period will serve the purpose as mandated in law, as there is not much- if anything at all- to modify in this resolution.

Absolutely not. This is a major change to our laws. We should not be rubber stamping it even if Belschaft has a mandate to do this.

Edit: Just to be clear, I formally object to the motion to waive debate.

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Republic of Lansoon (Pacifica)

(This post was last modified: 06-13-2022, 06:02 PM by Comfed.)

Jebediah · 06-13-2022, 07:25 PM

(06-13-2022, 05:58 PM)Comfed Wrote:
(06-13-2022, 05:31 PM)im_a_waffle1 Wrote: I motion that the Chair waive the mandatory debate period and bring this resolution to a vote as allowed under Article 2 Section 7 of the Legislative Procedure Act. It is highly likely that this resolution will pass, since when you combine the percentage of votes that Belschaft and Jebediah- two candidates with very similar campaigns- received in the Minister of Media election, you would end up with almost 75%, which is well over the amount needed to modify the Charter. Factor in that the majority of people who voted for Belschaft or Jebediah as a second choice will most likely vote For on this proposed amendment, you are looking at a very high chance of this resolution passing in a landslide.

It is also unlikely that the debate period will serve the purpose as mandated in law, as there is not much- if anything at all- to modify in this resolution.
Absolutely not. This is a major change to our laws. We should not be rubber stamping it even if Belschaft has a mandate to do this.

Edit: Just to be clear, I formally object to the motion to waive debate.

What's the point of keeping on with a debate when there hasn't been any debate at all? Almost every post in this thread has either supported the motion or discussed technicalities. If no one is going to actually debate whether or not we should pass this - or the details of it - then the only thing that matters is how many people approve of it and how many don't, for which a vote is the best option.

**Pronoun** · 06-13-2022, 07:57 PM

I think it's also become clear that not everyone is necessarily caught up on Bel's campaign plans. I'm honestly not entirely sure why there's such a rush to waive the mandatory debate time.

In any case, if this amendment abolishes the Ministry of Media with immediate effect, then I personally don't plan to support it until Bel gets around to publishing ministry assets as a public resource.

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