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Jebediah · 06-14-2022, 03:32 PM

(06-13-2022, 07:57 PM)Pronoun Wrote: In any case, if this amendment abolishes the Ministry of Media with immediate effect, then I personally don't plan to support it until Bel gets around to publishing ministry assets as a public resource.

I suppose that is fair enough (though, as far as I know, the only thing the Ministry of Media has that isn't publicly available is a short thread on some ideas for articles, as well as the two discord channels it has).

(To Bel) When can we expect to see these archived and published?

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**Belschaft** · 06-14-2022, 03:50 PM

(06-14-2022, 03:32 PM)Jebediah Wrote:
(06-13-2022, 07:57 PM)Pronoun Wrote: In any case, if this amendment abolishes the Ministry of Media with immediate effect, then I personally don't plan to support it until Bel gets around to publishing ministry assets as a public resource.

I suppose that is fair enough (though, as far as I know, the only thing the Ministry of Media has that isn't publicly available is a short thread on some ideas for articles, as well as the two discord channels it has).

(To Bel) When can we expect to see these archived and published?

I'm in the process of doing an audit of MoM assets and so far everything in the private areas which would be of use is on people's personal GitHub/GDrive/Imgur/etc. There's a couple of things still to check but not much.

Once I officially take over as MoM I'll archive the Discord channels.

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(This post was last modified: 06-14-2022, 03:51 PM by Belschaft.)

***Tsunamy*** · 06-15-2022, 08:43 PM

(06-13-2022, 01:33 PM)Belschaft Wrote:
(06-13-2022, 12:22 PM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote:
(06-13-2022, 12:08 PM)Belschaft Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 11:33 PM)Comfed Wrote:
(06-12-2022, 10:45 PM)Farengeto Wrote: Just for the purpose of being legally unambiguous here, I would suggest some kind of resolution with this amendment making it clear what happens with shutting down the ministry and the dismissal of the minister. (e.g. The minister being dismissed immediately after its passage vs serving out the remainder of the term.)

Best not to have a defunct ministry floating around in a legally ambiguous state for the rest of the term if we can avoid it.

Agreed, something along the lines of this:
Upon the passage of this amendment, the Ministry of Media will be dissolved in its entirety and the Minister of Media will be removed from office.

I consider this unnecessary for the reasons stated by Jebediah - Article Six, Clause Ten is the sole reference to a Ministry of Media in our laws. Once it is removed there is no legal basis for such a Ministry or a Minister to exist.

(06-13-2022, 06:57 AM)BlockBuster2K43 Wrote: I’m assuming that the roles and responsibilities of the Ministry of Media will be passed onto other ministries within the South Pacific?

Why?

Oh, okay. So any activity or tasks performed by the Ministry of Media will cease to exist and no longer be used/updated? So the Southern Journal will cease to exist by that logic.

Why would it cease to exist? What is stopping someone from publishing an edition of the Southern Journal, SPINN, TSP Monthly News, TSP Times, etc etc whenever they feel like it?

You don't need a Ministry of Media to write a newspaper.

While I agree in principle Bel, wasn't Media formally under the MoRA umbrella previously? To Far's point, we need to dictate where this will go and who will be responsible for it — if anyone.

We're no longer in an SP that will allow someone to randomly grab ahold of the newspaper or SJ and run with it. And, those days seems pretty far behind us, much to some of our chagrin.

It seems to me like Media should Fall under Culture or Engagement. If we want we could start calling one of them RA again.

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**Jay Coop** · 06-15-2022, 08:53 PM

(06-15-2022, 08:43 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: It seems to me like Media should Fall under Culture or Engagement. If we want we could start calling one of them RA again.

This is problematic because we'd basically be going back to the MoRA minus whichever ministry doesn't get Media's responsibilities. The whole point of the MoRA split was that one minister had too many responsibilities.

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***Tsunamy*** · 06-15-2022, 09:17 PM

(06-15-2022, 08:53 PM)Jay Coop Wrote:
(06-15-2022, 08:43 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: It seems to me like Media should Fall under Culture or Engagement. If we want we could start calling one of them RA again.
This is problematic because we'd basically be going back to the MoRA minus whichever ministry doesn't get Media's responsibilities. The whole point of the MoRA split was that one minister had too many responsibilities.

I mean, I supported this change on that premise, but, clearly, that wasn't the issue. But I don't think we can just let it sit there, either.

Way back when, the Cabinet would appoint an editor of SPINN. Maybe that's the way to so with the SJ instead of having a dedicated minister?

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**Moon** · 06-17-2022, 02:27 AM

(06-15-2022, 09:17 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Way back when, the Cabinet would appoint an editor of SPINN. Maybe that's the way to so with the SJ instead of having a dedicated minister?

Appointing someone to run TSJ is going to have basically the same effect as having a dedicated minister in place, as MoM's focus over the last couple of terms (including mine) was solely on TSJ and nothing else. It wasn't sustainable then, I'm not sure it would sustainable right now.

If we're really concerned about TSJ ceasing to exist as an entity (I'm not), Belschaft can open applications for it to any interested citizen looking to write cool things under its banner once this amendment goes through.

**Belschaft** · 06-17-2022, 06:21 AM

(06-17-2022, 02:27 AM)Moon Wrote:
(06-15-2022, 09:17 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Way back when, the Cabinet would appoint an editor of SPINN. Maybe that's the way to so with the SJ instead of having a dedicated minister?

Appointing someone to run TSJ is going to have basically the same effect as having a dedicated minister in place, as MoM's focus over the last couple of terms (including mine) was solely on TSJ and nothing else. It wasn't sustainable then, I'm not sure it would sustainable right now.

If we're really concerned about TSJ ceasing to exist as an entity (I'm not), Belschaft can open applications for it to any interested citizen looking to write cool things under its banner once this amendment goes through.

Why would I need to be involved in the process? If someone wants to write a damn newspaper they can just write a damn newspaper.

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**Moon** · 06-17-2022, 10:10 AM

(06-17-2022, 06:21 AM)Belschaft Wrote:
(06-17-2022, 02:27 AM)Moon Wrote:
(06-15-2022, 09:17 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Way back when, the Cabinet would appoint an editor of SPINN. Maybe that's the way to so with the SJ instead of having a dedicated minister?

Appointing someone to run TSJ is going to have basically the same effect as having a dedicated minister in place, as MoM's focus over the last couple of terms (including mine) was solely on TSJ and nothing else. It wasn't sustainable then, I'm not sure it would sustainable right now.

If we're really concerned about TSJ ceasing to exist as an entity (I'm not), Belschaft can open applications for it to any interested citizen looking to write cool things under its banner once this amendment goes through.

Why would I need to be involved in the process? If someone wants to write a damn newspaper they can just write a damn newspaper.

Essentially my point. If anyone feels like they would like write for TSJ, they can do so without anything hindering them. I'm not sure we'd need to stuff the outlet to a Ministry it doesn't fit with to ensure that it can continue living a static existence.

(This post was last modified: 06-17-2022, 10:10 AM by Moon.)

**HumanSanity** · 06-17-2022, 01:05 PM

These arguments are confusing to me.

If you've been in the loop about Bels' campaigns for the the past year, you know he simply wants to obliterate all public media and is proposing an amendment to do so because he now has an electoral mandate for it. He's not going to be interested in some sort of "moving it around" proposal.

If you disagree with that, you're free to vote against it. I'm still a bit undecided on whether I'll vote against or abstain. But the argument "Media's functions should be offloaded somewhere" is not a compromise to Belschaft's proposal. It's the opposite of it.

I'll also say I disagree with a "move it around" proposal. There's little difference between having a Media Ministry and an Appointed-TSJ-Officer or Moved-to-Engagement/Culture option in terms of the issues Media has faced in the past

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**Belschaft** · 06-17-2022, 01:37 PM

A full list of dispatches published by the Ministry of Media can be found here.

I have put the nation on vacation mode so it will continue to exist for at least sixty days; I don't plan to log into it again to keep it alive, though someone else who has the password may feel like doing so.

I have carried out a full audit of all MoM channels, accounts and private areas. I have not located anything else of value which is "publicly" owned though a couple of former Ministers did create some helpful formatting guides/tools.

I have archived all remaining MoM Discord channels; two of these are publicly accessible but one I have restricted as it contains account passwords.

With MoM now closed I formally motion to vote.

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(This post was last modified: 06-17-2022, 01:39 PM by Belschaft.)