I urge the Assembly to think very carefully about how it votes on this bill.

This proposal isn't only unnecessary, since the CSS already can provide exceptions to the normal endorsement cap, but also enshrines into law privileges that should not exist, and which are not available to the majority of South Pacificans. What this proposal does is allow someone who has already resigned from the CSS the ability to keep some of the privileges of membership, without any of the responsibilities attached to it. That is not right, and should not be how we conduct business.

If a member has resigned, then they have resigned. We shouldn't try to create mechanisms for them to be only partially resigned. We don't need inactive nations sitting on influence, we need active and newly active nations gaining influence, and having a hand in regional defence. We don't have that if we spend time legislating privileges for retired members.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
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The vote is up here: http://tspforums.xyz/thread-6095.html

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I urge the Assembly to think very carefully about how it votes on this bill.

This proposal isn't only unnecessary, since the CSS already can provide exceptions to the normal endorsement cap, but also enshrines into law privileges that should not exist, and which are not available to the majority of South Pacificans. What this proposal does is allow someone who has already resigned from the CSS the ability to keep some of the privileges of membership, without any of the responsibilities attached to it. That is not right, and should not be how we conduct business.

If a member has resigned, then they have resigned. We shouldn't try to create mechanisms for them to be only partially resigned. We don't need inactive nations sitting on influence, we need active and newly active nations gaining influence, and having a hand in regional defence. We don't have that if we spend time legislating privileges for retired members.

Again, Kris, I'm really sick of you misrepresenting this bill.

Let's be blunt: You're pushing a false narrative that will not only make the region safer, are doing so specifically to attack a former CRS member (again, please use the proper name of the organization) and drive a safe face from the region.

What's worse is that this has happened before! By you! 

I proposed this because I see how this is going to go. For a while we're all going to play nice under the guise that DM isn't a security threat. Then, as soon as it's moved from memory, there will be a push telling him he needs to get under the endorsement cap like everyone else. Maybe not immediately, but the threat of removal by force will be there. Then DM will either need to be ejected or leave the reason to appease this ridiculousness thereby loosing all of his influence.

No one is "hogging" influence. And, heck, there's no requirement that people do this. DM could leave the region tomorrow if his intent wasn't to help protect the region! 

And, if you're so concerned about getting new members involved, perhaps you should propose something to do that rather than suggesting this bill would prohibit anything of what your proposing.

I find it strange that this was proposed by a member of the CRS, endorsed by two other members of the CRS, our PM and the sitting delegate and yet ... you're willing to pitch this as a grave threat to our security. It's laughable, frankly.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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Oh boy.

This proposal isn't only unnecessary, since the CSS already can provide exceptions to the normal endorsement cap,

Theoretically true. In practice, there are no guarantees, and DM has a huge vat of influence that shouldn't get lost. Let's get to that later.

but also enshrines into law privileges that should not exist, and which are not available to the majority of South Pacificans.

That's true. Membership on the CRS is also not generally available to the majority of South Pacificans, so having been on the CRS in the first place, the affected individual has already passed one hell of a litmus test.

What this proposal does is allow someone who has already resigned from the CSS the ability to keep some of the privileges of membership, without any of the responsibilities attached to it. That is not right, and should not be how we conduct business.

Having a high endorsement count is not a "privilege" of CRS-membership, Councilman. It is a requirement.

2. The minimum qualifications for membership in the Council on Regional Security are: maintaining a World Assembly member nation in the The South Pacific; a Soft Power Disbursement Rating of at least 50,000, or a Regional Influence ranking of Vassal; 200 endorsements or half the endorsements of the Delegate; and having served at least six consecutive months as a legislator or two terms in the Local Council. The influence and endorsement requirements may be updated by the Council, with majority approval by the Assembly.

[...]

6. Continued membership in the Council on Regional Security is predicated upon meeting eligibility requirements. Should any member of the Council fail to meet those requirements, they will lose membership and all the powers and privileges that come with it, if they do not meet the requirements within a week of notification.

DM would not have been permitted to be a CRS member if he had not met these requirements, even before his Delegate term.

If a member has resigned, then they have resigned. We shouldn't try to create mechanisms for them to be only partially resigned. We don't need inactive nations sitting on influence, we need active and newly active nations gaining influence, and having a hand in regional defence.

Influence is gained steadily, proportional to the amount of endorsements a nation has. In a GCR such as ours, influence is capped at a level proportional to those number of endorsements (basically, the influence cap of a nation is the amount of influence a nation with that endorsement count could gain unfettered within half a year). In other words, influence is a precious good. Having lots of influence means being impossible, or at the most expensive, to banject from the region. Having lots of that amongst trusted nations (active or not) is imperative for regional security. The reason LWU was successfully able to grief Lazarus was exactly that - they managed to take control of the influence situation within Lazarus. Our ally in the North goes so far as to even preclude any de facto endorsement cap at all (theoretically, there is one at 50 minutes delegate endorsements, but that's near impossible to get to in practice). Security councillors that resign in TNP don't lose their endorsements or influence.

In DM, we have a trusted nation with more influence than anybody else by over 20000 points in the region (that's roughly a months worth of influence gain for a CRS member). From a security standpoint, it is actively harmful to throw that away. DM has noted that he will be available in case of a crisis, he has the trust of pretty much the entire South Pacific, and he sits on an insane amount of influence.

By stating that "we don't need inactive nations sitting on influence", you have shown a fundamental ignorance of game mechanics. This is very disappointing coming from a member of our regional security institution.

We don't have that if we spend time legislating privileges for retired members.

As opposed to.... what, exactly? What is this legislation taking time away from?

Yes, this could be done differently. Depending on the outcome of this debate, I would have had an alternative suggestion too. But your post is ridiculous and outright sophistry.

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I agree with Kris Kringle. This bill is absolutely unnecessary and will put The South Pacific at risk of a coup. Members Emeritus are within reach of the Delegate's endorsement cap and can be able to execute a coup against our Delegate. However, I'm all for our region establishing an honour system to honour them for their service to this region. I urge Legislators to vote against this bill for regional security stability.  

 

BZERNELEG 

 

South Pacifican. Public Servant. Creator. In that order.

  

Positions

Legislator (July 07, 2017 - December 14, 2017; January 05, 2018 - March 03, 2018; March 29, 2018 - October 8, 2019; January 9, 2020 - present)

Former Offices

Ambassador of The South Pacific to Hell (November 18, 2018 - October 8, 2019)

Ambassador of The South Pacific to The West Pacific (May 8, 2018 - November 16, 2018)

Deputy Chair of the Assembly (January 11, 2019 - March 7, 2019)

SPSF Trainee (April 01, 2018 - May 11, 2019)

Chair of the Assembly (March 7, 2019 - July 12, 2019)

Fellow of the Ministry of Regional Affairs (August 25, 2018 - July 17, 2019)

 

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Official Thread • Lampshade Broadcasting Company • The Tsunamy Institution of the Law and Public Policy

 

 

(This post was last modified: 04-10-2018, 05:05 AM by Bzerneleg.)

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I agree with Kris Kringle. This bill is absolutely unnecessary and will put The South Pacific at risk of a coup. Members Emeritus are within reach of the Delegate's endorsement cap and can be able to execute a coup against our Delegate. However, I'm all for our region establishing an honour system to honour them for their service to this region. I urge Legislators to vote against this bill for regional security stability.  

If they've been on the CRS, they have already been certified as trustworthy, haven't they? I wouldn't see them as so greatly less trustworthy than current CRS, to be honest.

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When you centralize so much power on an institution, it can become a double-edged sword...

Despite my overall trust in the CRS, there is always the future. And there is always betrayal. I oppose this wholeheartedly. My apologies to the CRS, but so much power on one institution can be damaging to our posterity.

Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)

Local Council Member(April 24-August 11)

Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)

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- Me (2001- Present)

"Change is the world's blood"
- Me (2001-Present)

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When you centralize so much power on an institution, it can become a double-edged sword...

Despite my overall trust in the CRS, there is always the future. And there is always betrayal. I oppose this wholeheartedly. My apologies to the CRS, but so much power on one institution can be damaging to our posterity.

The Resolution does not increase the powers of the CRS. What the resolution's intention, as far as I've interpreted, is clarifying a grey area for CRS with respect to enforcing the endo-cap on former CRS members by removing the ambiguity between ex-CRS officials and non-CRS members violating the endocap. The way this is achieved appears to be in the form of legacy privileges and recognition for their work in protecting the region.

However, as Farengeto noted, "there is nothing requiring us (CRS) to ban or even take action against a nation above the cap. We have full discretion to change and choose how to enforce the cap, we can even set multiple tiers if we want. There are no legal objections to just leaving DM as is and let his endos decay."

The Charter also states, "Enforcement of the endorsement cap should be done with leniency if a violator does not pose a significant risk to regional security." 

Thus leading to doubts about the practical effects of the resolution.

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I actually fully support this because the thing that stands between us and coups, usually and historically conducted by legally elected officials is long-standing, certified as trustworthy members of the region who for real life reasons can't be here every day. Instead of punishing them, let's recognize their efforts and give them an emeritus status that prevents any noob tomorrow from as was discussed trying to paint DM as a security risk for being over the endo cap. What we do know in TSP is that memories of some are notoriously short. 

Many regions have similar anti-coup measure where long-standing members in good standing serve as guardians... of the galaxy

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
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(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018, 10:10 PM by Escade.)

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Thank you for the spirted debate in this thread everyone. I read through the posts here and in discord and am happy to support it.

The 16th Delegate of The South Pacific

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