Idk about Discord but privacy has long been a concern on the offsite.

I don't understand how that would be the case because I have a secure connection to the forum.

In short: People don't trust me/the admins with knowing their IP address.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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Idk about Discord but privacy has long been a concern on the offsite.

I don't understand how that would be the case because I have a secure connection to the forum.

In short: People don't trust me/the admins with knowing their IP address.

Ah, I see.

4× Cabinet minister /// 1× OWL director /// CRS member /// SPSF

My History

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As a roleplayer, I don't believe that MoRA has been able to put together a productive roleplay agenda in the past and a MoCA could change that by better organizing inter-regional events and intra-regional promotion, which I don't think the MoRA has had the time to do.

I did try!

Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond!

Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

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As a roleplayer, I don't believe that MoRA has been able to put together a productive roleplay agenda in the past and a MoCA could change that by better organizing inter-regional events and intra-regional promotion, which I don't think the MoRA has had the time to do.

I did try!

I know you did your best, but you had to balance that with the other responsibilities of being the MoRA.

4× Cabinet minister /// 1× OWL director /// CRS member /// SPSF

My History

(This post was last modified: 12-21-2019, 06:28 PM by Jay Coop.)

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Let me be clear and blunt here:

Once again, we are trying to solve the problem of inactivity here, however, creating more ministries will not magically solve the problem. It will just cause extra layers of bureaucracy, and will make the TSP cabinet harder to navigate. The only way we can create activity is by finding a larger, motivated workforce, which is difficult. Many new people (not just in RA, but in TSP in general) drop out due to the fact that they can't spend their lives on an online game.

I think that the RA portfolio is large, but, I don't understand what a split would solve.

Also, some people don't seem to understand how the MoRA leadership structure works, so I'll explain it now, just so that it is clear, and will not tarnish further debate:

Every human who joins the MoRA becomes a fellow. This is the junior tier. People here write articles, create artwork, help with event organisation etc.

Some humans become Senior Fellows. They lead departments and projects. If you join, your work will be checked by a senior fellow, and the senior fellows completed project will occasionally be checked by the minister. There are only two superiors of a fellow: the senior fellow of the department they work in and the Minister.

Advisors advise the minister, and the deputy typically the minister's most senior advisor, and is also permitted into the cabinet channel, so they are also a cabinet advisor.

It's simple, and almost all ministries have two layers of management. When I worked in FA, I had direct contact with a deputy, who then was in direct contact with the minister.

Aga/Eunopiar

Mostly does boring things.

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Let me be clear and blunt here:

Once again, we are trying to solve the problem of inactivity here, however, creating more ministries will not magically solve the problem. It will just cause extra layers of bureaucracy, and will make the TSP cabinet harder to navigate. The only way we can create activity is by finding a larger, motivated workforce, which is difficult. Many new people (not just in RA, but in TSP in general) drop out due to the fact that they can't spend their lives on an online game.

I think that the RA portfolio is large, but, I don't understand what a split would solve.

Also, some people don't seem to understand how the MoRA leadership structure works, so I'll explain it now, just so that it is clear, and will not tarnish further debate:

Every human who joins the MoRA becomes a fellow. This is the junior tier. People here write articles, create artwork, help with event organisation etc.

Some humans become Senior Fellows. They lead departments and projects. If you join, your work will be checked by a senior fellow, and the senior fellows completed project will occasionally be checked by the minister. There are only two superiors of a fellow: the senior fellow of the department they work in and the Minister.

Advisors advise the minister, and the deputy typically the minister's most senior advisor, and is also permitted into the cabinet channel, so they are also a cabinet advisor.

It's simple, and almost all ministries have two layers of management. When I worked in FA, I had direct contact with a deputy, who then was in direct contact with the minister.

All right. I tried to play this off on Discord, but, to be blunt — this is eff'd. Especially, because, unless you're just delayed in posting this, it sounds like others have raised the issue after I did.

I'm sorry, every Ministry doesn't need to have two layers of bureaucracy. In fact, they *shouldn't* have two layers of bureaucracy! Think of all of the time the Minister (or deputy) could spend doing things rather than checking the work of others! Not to mention, that doesn't want to get people involved because it doesn't feel like anything gets done as they wait for their respective deputy to respond. Rather than organizing others to do it, lets just ... do it.

In short: if RA has too many parts to be sufficiently run by a Minister and a (single) deputy, then it is clearly too big.

Again, I'm on the side that we shouldn't be expanding the Cabinet with the hope of spurring more activity. But, the ongoing defense that RA needs to have 65 deputies with a byzantine structure underneath in it and would work just fine we if just found more active people isn't passing the smell test here.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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[snip]

I understand your concerns, but I'll counterpoint by saying that reducing the scope of a Cabinet official, and this mostly applies to the MoRA, may actually help in producing a more functional agenda. Granted, there may be overlap between who's participating in ministries, but creating another Cabinet official or two (eg. MoCA and/or MoM) could give more attention to things such as roleplay and media. As a roleplayer, I don't believe that MoRA has been able to put together a productive roleplay agenda in the past and a MoCA could change that by better organizing inter-regional events and intra-regional promotion, which I don't think the MoRA has had the time to do.

I agree.

Rather than deferring to the Minister of Regional Affairs, the Prime Minister will be able to take a more proactive role in formulating an articulate government direction when they are directly managing these various components at a Cabinet level.

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I think there's a tendency to avoid change in this region if there isn't a pressing problem to solve, but, even if you don't see the size of the MoRA as a problem (and, personally, I think that it is these days) is there any reason to only have only ONE ministry covering that portfolio other than that it already exists that way?

I mean, this is a game. Is change for change's sake really that bad?

I wonder if our Chair might use her discretion to organise an indicative poll to guage the Assembly's opinion on the matter beyond the loudest voices in this debate thread? Something like, 'Do you think the Ministry of Regional Affairs should be split into two or more separate ministries?'

I'd like to point out that anyone can start an indicative/non-binding/opinion poll! It would be interesting to see them used more often - I'll start one for this.

Usually I'd be reluctant to support this because change is always a risk, but yeah, it's a game, change, even if for change's sake, shouldn't be feared, and I think this could have some positive impacts. Worth a try, essentially

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Here's a more detailed poll including the different options for splitting that have been discussed, whether or not to create a MoWAA, and the questions that Tsu wanted about whether people would be more or less likely to run for split-up minister positions:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQ...sp=sf_link

~ Aumeltopia ~

Raccoons are bandits! First they steal your food . . . and then your heart/identity!

Reply

Let me be clear and blunt here:

Once again, we are trying to solve the problem of inactivity here, however, creating more ministries will not magically solve the problem. It will just cause extra layers of bureaucracy, and will make the TSP cabinet harder to navigate. The only way we can create activity is by finding a larger, motivated workforce, which is difficult. Many new people (not just in RA, but in TSP in general) drop out due to the fact that they can't spend their lives on an online game.

I think that the RA portfolio is large, but, I don't understand what a split would solve.

Also, some people don't seem to understand how the MoRA leadership structure works, so I'll explain it now, just so that it is clear, and will not tarnish further debate:

Every human who joins the MoRA becomes a fellow. This is the junior tier. People here write articles, create artwork, help with event organisation etc.

Some humans become Senior Fellows. They lead departments and projects. If you join, your work will be checked by a senior fellow, and the senior fellows completed project will occasionally be checked by the minister. There are only two superiors of a fellow: the senior fellow of the department they work in and the Minister.

Advisors advise the minister, and the deputy typically the minister's most senior advisor, and is also permitted into the cabinet channel, so they are also a cabinet advisor.

It's simple, and almost all ministries have two layers of management. When I worked in FA, I had direct contact with a deputy, who then was in direct contact with the minister.

All right. I tried to play this off on Discord, but, to be blunt — this is eff'd. Especially, because, unless you're just delayed in posting this, it sounds like others have raised the issue after I did.

I'm sorry, every Ministry doesn't need to have two layers of bureaucracy. In fact, they *shouldn't* have two layers of bureaucracy! Think of all of the time the Minister (or deputy) could spend doing things rather than checking the work of others! Not to mention, that doesn't want to get people involved because it doesn't feel like anything gets done as they wait for their respective deputy to respond. Rather than organizing others to do it, lets just ... do it.

In short: if RA has too many parts to be sufficiently run by a Minister and a (single) deputy, then it is clearly too big.

Again, I'm on the side that we shouldn't be expanding the Cabinet with the hope of spurring more activity. But, the ongoing defense that RA needs to have 65 deputies with a byzantine structure underneath in it and would work just fine we if just found more active people isn't passing the smell test here.

Should I explain it again, or do we quite understand? I don't have 65 deputies. In fact, legally, I only have one.

To suggest that I don't do the work is insane, and very offensive.. I negotiate with other regions to organise events, keep people active, and help senior fellows achieve agendas.

RA structure is similar to the previous FA structure. When I worked in FA, I had contact with a deputy who was communicating with the ambassadors. Then, he has contact with the minister who created policy. Should we split FA into Comms and policymaking? No, because if you do that, you are an idiot. Splitting things into smaller things just won't solve issues.

Also, you haven't applied for fellowship, which, although difficult, makes it hard to explain management structure in a simple way, as you have had no direct experiences of it. (EDIT: to put it more bluntly, you haven't ever been a fellow, to my recollection. You have had the opportunity to apply? How do you know about the MoRA so much to lecture me on how to do my work, and why I'm not doing it well enough?)

Aga/Eunopiar

Mostly does boring things.

(This post was last modified: 12-22-2019, 06:04 PM by Aga.)

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