I don't understand the fixation on having an odd or an even number of Cabinet votes. The Cabinet barely votes that formally anyway, and even so, isn't having the right division of ministries the most important thing here? We have ways of easily managing tied Cabinet votes, no matter what number of ministries we have. I don't understand why this is even a factor to be discussing.

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What Somy said essentially.  The amount of votes shouldn't matter really.  And, even if we did, we'd want an odd over an even number anyways to prevent deadlock.  But that's not important.  

I have a proposal for the immediate so we can pass it (and then we can do a resolution so that it doesn't take effect until October essentially (though I'm not good at writing, so I won't try, but I can outline it and let another legislator who can actually write laws and such do so.

Essentially, I think we would do well with Splitting Culture and Media.  Then Graphics and Integration can become a department like what OWL is.  There's no need to overcomplicate things about it and argue about votes.  In fact, I think that this will be better anyways

So
Prime Minister
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Minister of Military Affairs
Minister of Cultural Affairs
Minister of Journalism Affairs 
(Sorry Seraph but I love the -Affairs thing too much to let it go)
WA Department (OWL)
Integration+Graphics Department

This is the kind of split that makes the most sense to me anyways.  I can try to codify this into an amendment with the addendums........ later.

Empress of Fire 
Current Minister of Military Affairs
Chair Perch of the Assembly (February to June 2020)
SPSF Soldier
MoRA Fellow
Ambassador to Forest and Lazarus

Reply

I don't understand the fixation on having an odd or an even number of Cabinet votes. The Cabinet barely votes that formally anyway, and even so, isn't having the right division of ministries the most important thing here? We have ways of easily managing tied Cabinet votes, no matter what number of ministries we have. I don't understand why this is even a factor to be discussing.

I was actually discussing it since there was about two pages worth of talk about it in the last iteration of the debate. So I thought it was important.

What Somy said essentially.  The amount of votes shouldn't matter really.  And, even if we did, we'd want an odd over an even number anyways to prevent deadlock.  But that's not important.  

I have a proposal for the immediate so we can pass it (and then we can do a resolution so that it doesn't take effect until October essentially (though I'm not good at writing, so I won't try, but I can outline it and let another legislator who can actually write laws and such do so.

Essentially, I think we would do well with Splitting Culture and Media.  Then Graphics and Integration can become a department like what OWL is.  There's no need to overcomplicate things about it and argue about votes.  In fact, I think that this will be better anyways

So
Prime Minister
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Minister of Military Affairs
Minister of Cultural Affairs
Minister of Journalism Affairs 
(Sorry Seraph but I love the -Affairs thing too much to let it go)
WA Department (OWL)
Integration+Graphics Department

This is the kind of split that makes the most sense to me anyways.  I can try to codify this into an amendment with the addendums........ later.

Imma have to fight you on the whole 'Affairs' thing. Why not just make it the Ministry of Media?

Local Councillor (3/15/20 - 6/23/20)
Deputy Minister of Educational Affairs (2/19/20 - 4/9/20)
Senior Fellow of Integration (12/20/20 - 2/19/20)
Fellow (1/12/19 - ~10/14/20) 
Ambassador to Osiris and TWP (4/3/20 - 7/8/20)
Legislator (1/19/19 - 11/1/21)
Chair of the Assembly (6/23/20 - 9/3/20)
Secretary of State (7/8/20 - 2/4/21 | 6/14/21 - 11/1/21) 
Deputy of Media (2/14/21 - 11/1/21)
Ambassador to TNP and Lazarus  (6/14/21 - 10/22/21)
MoE Leadership (10/14/20 - 11/1/21)

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Imma have to fight you on the whole 'Affairs' thing. Why not just make it the Ministry of Media?

Well I did say I like the Affairs thing. More of an annoyance thing bc Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Military Affairs. Again, this is small, the name thing isn't very important at all and I know that. But I'm weird :p

Empress of Fire 
Current Minister of Military Affairs
Chair Perch of the Assembly (February to June 2020)
SPSF Soldier
MoRA Fellow
Ambassador to Forest and Lazarus

Reply

Imma have to fight you on the whole 'Affairs' thing. Why not just make it the Ministry of Media?

Well I did say I like the Affairs thing. More of an annoyance thing bc Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Military Affairs. Again, this is small, the name thing isn't very important at all and I know that. But I'm weird :p

Consistancy vs. a chain break. Quite a conundrum we have here.

Local Councillor (3/15/20 - 6/23/20)
Deputy Minister of Educational Affairs (2/19/20 - 4/9/20)
Senior Fellow of Integration (12/20/20 - 2/19/20)
Fellow (1/12/19 - ~10/14/20) 
Ambassador to Osiris and TWP (4/3/20 - 7/8/20)
Legislator (1/19/19 - 11/1/21)
Chair of the Assembly (6/23/20 - 9/3/20)
Secretary of State (7/8/20 - 2/4/21 | 6/14/21 - 11/1/21) 
Deputy of Media (2/14/21 - 11/1/21)
Ambassador to TNP and Lazarus  (6/14/21 - 10/22/21)
MoE Leadership (10/14/20 - 11/1/21)

Reply

You could always rename MA to Defence and eradicate the problem entirely.

Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
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Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

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I don't understand the fixation on having an odd or an even number of Cabinet votes.

Few Legislators feel that if there are even Ministers then a cabinet voting deadlock may happen and if odd then it won't, but I think if its odd and a minister abstains then won't there be a deadlock? Deadlocks can happen and we can't help it unless someone changes opinion or the issue is delayed.

I will 

I have a proposal for the immediate so we can pass it (and then we can do a resolution so that it doesn't take effect until October essentially (though I'm not good at writing, so I won't try, but I can outline it and let another legislator who can actually write laws and such do so.

We can pass the resolution with the proposal. Also I too have the proposal and this one is better than the last one. So we would have following Ministers and Ministries:

Prime Minister
Ministry of Foreign Affairs [Minister of Foreign Affairs] [MOFA]
Ministry of Military Affairs [Minister of Military Affairs] [MOMA]
Ministry of Regional Affairs (Cultural Department, Roleplay Department, Integration Department) [Minister of Regional Affairs] [MORA]
Ministry of Information and News Affairs [Minister of Information and Press Affairs] [MINA]

Reply

What Somy said essentially.  The amount of votes shouldn't matter really.  And, even if we did, we'd want an odd over an even number anyways to prevent deadlock.  But that's not important.  

I have a proposal for the immediate so we can pass it (and then we can do a resolution so that it doesn't take effect until October essentially (though I'm not good at writing, so I won't try, but I can outline it and let another legislator who can actually write laws and such do so.

Essentially, I think we would do well with Splitting Culture and Media.  Then Graphics and Integration can become a department like what OWL is.  There's no need to overcomplicate things about it and argue about votes.  In fact, I think that this will be better anyways

So
Prime Minister
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Minister of Military Affairs
Minister of Cultural Affairs
Minister of Journalism Affairs 
(Sorry Seraph but I love the -Affairs thing too much to let it go)
WA Department (OWL)
Integration+Graphics Department

This is the kind of split that makes the most sense to me anyways.  I can try to codify this into an amendment with the addendums........ later.

I agree with Phoenix. I am also fully supporting an RA split due to the past two elected ministers, Jay and Seraph, resigned, probably because the ministry was too big and was a headache.

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You could always rename MA to Defence and eradicate the problem entirely.

But the problem isn't eradicated completely unless we rename the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (Again, I know this isn't an issue at all, sorry for being probably annoying at this point about it)

Few Legislators feel that if there are even Ministers then a cabinet voting deadlock may happen and if odd then it won't, but I think if its odd and a minister abstains then won't there be a deadlock? Deadlocks can happen and we can't help it unless someone changes opinion or the issue is delayed.

I will

Even or odd number of ministers dont really matter, the much more glaring issue is the MoRA mandate.

We can pass the resolution with the proposal. Also I too have the proposal and this one is better than the last one. So we would have following Ministers and Ministries:

Prime Minister
Ministry of Foreign Affairs [Minister of Foreign Affairs] [MOFA]
Ministry of Military Affairs [Minister of Military Affairs] [MOMA]
Ministry of Regional Affairs (Cultural Department, Roleplay Department, Integration Department) [Minister of Regional Affairs] [MORA]
Ministry of Information and News Affairs [Minister of Information and Press Affairs] [MINA]

I'm not sure how I feel about keeping integration together with culture and roleplay. Culture and roleplay are definitely culture but Integration much wider of a mandate than just culture. As others have explained, integration is an infrastructure thing, hence why it's been proposed to split it into its own department.

I agree with Phoenix. I am also fully supporting an RA split due to the past two elected ministers, Jay and Seraph, resigned, probably because the ministry was too big and was a headache.

While Seraph did resign due to burnout/stress/etc, Jay resigned after the issues arising from the MoRA split debate last term.

Empress of Fire 
Current Minister of Military Affairs
Chair Perch of the Assembly (February to June 2020)
SPSF Soldier
MoRA Fellow
Ambassador to Forest and Lazarus

Reply

Even or odd number of ministers dont really matter, the much more glaring issue is the MoRA mandate.

 agreed, was just telling [b]Somyrion[/b] 
 

I'm not sure how I feel about keeping integration together with culture and roleplay. Culture and roleplay are definitely culture but Integration much wider of a mandate than just culture. As others have explained, integration is an infrastructure thing, hence why it's been proposed to split it into its own department.

If we make a complete new ministry for culture and RP, then their job is quite less and so will be the bureaucrats in that ministry. Integrations has some good amount of job and it may attract new people who want to take part in TSP's bureaucracy. Media will attract a good amount of crowd than other ministry and it has a heavy amount of job so to reduce RA's pressure this type of split would be good. 

Also if someone is thinking, why I said Bureaucracy then this is the answer. I know we aren't hired, we work without pay, but we know are working for a ministry in the govt so we are bureaucrats.

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