| Declassified: Belschaft & NK |
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Well, I was hoping for more input from the others first, but based on the options laid out, I prefer the third: put the information out there and let Democracy handle it.
Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond! Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi. Salma 145:8
Maybe we should poke everyone else before we decide?
-tsunamy
[forum admin] (02-23-2017, 11:29 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: Maybe we should poke everyone else before we decide?I'm doing just that in the cabinet office channel. Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond! Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi. Salma 145:8
I believe that I don't have enough information on Osiris and Empire to make any thought about if Belschaft is a security threat to our region. However I believe that we should publish this information and let our people see it and decide about it a.k.a choose the third option.
Chief Supervising Armchair
The CRS has been discussing this info for about two months now. We wouldn't bring this to the Cabinet if we weren't confident in the seriousness of the logs.
(02-23-2017, 12:02 PM)vietnam Wrote: I believe that I don't have enough information on Osiris and Empire to make any thought about if Belschaft is a security threat to our region. However I believe that we should publish this information and let our people see it and decide about it a.k.a choose the third option. I have to say that as someone who is equally skeptical toward these things (much to some people's chagrin  ) and as someone who advocated for Bel is in the past, some sort of collusion seems clear here. I'm not sure we need to take actions toward Osiris and/or The Empire quite yet, but it's pretty clear Bel cannot be trusted.One minor concern I have about kicking this to the Assembly is that ... we currently have 9 or so of the active Assembly members in this discussion, including the Chair. While there are a handful of people who I could see running with this (Omega, Roavin, Cormac, maybe even Feir), I'm slightly concerned we're going to kick it to the Assembly ... only to make a public discussion out of what we could be deciding here. That's not to say this isn't the proper course of action, but what happens if we release this and it lands with a thud?
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
I agree that there's significant risk with just throwing it to the Assembly. It's kind of an abdication of responsibility. I would be pretty dismayed if this dossier didn't earn any kind of real response, simply because the Assembly was tasked with the responsibilities of the CRS, but didn't have the knowledge of the CRS or the context/nuance of the issue.
I genuinely feel like there's a disconnect with how security functions in this game. There will never be a smoking gun when it comes to nefarious schemes. Just won't be. It's an online game, not real life. So if we hold ourselves to the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt" that real-life juries do, we'll miss security threats every time and find ourselves woefully unprepared for when those threats become active. What we have is a "preponderance of the evidence." The totality of what we have -- knowledge of Empire's usual MO and their history; the logs between Adytus and NK; the logs between NK and Bel; and Bel's own history -- points to collusion between NK (Empire) and Bel. Keep in mind this is simply one log that we got on pure dumb luck. We can assume there are other convos that haven't found their way into public pastebins. There's also the point that we aren't conducting a trial here, but rather assessing a threat. The meaning of "security threat" isn't that there is an imminent attack coming in the next couple days. But rather that there's evidence of a brewing threat to regional security, one that might need to be nipped in the bud before it does become an imminent attack. One of the options is to prepare a trial, if something criminal has indeed occurred. But not every security threat will have the option of a trial, because the reason it's a "threat" is exactly because the crime hasn't happened yet. So we should keep that in mind when we have these discussions!
Okay, well taking on board what both Tsu and Glen have said (and thank you, both for elucidating - this is all pretty new to me, afterall), I'd move toward a trail instead. That minimises the chance of the outcome being labelled as underhanded in some way (although I'm not naive enough to think it won't get such criticism to some degree, regardless).
Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond! Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi. Salma 145:8
(02-23-2017, 02:38 PM)Seraph Wrote: Okay, well taking on board what both Tsu and Glen have said (and thank you, both for elucidating - this is all pretty new to me, afterall), I'd move toward a trail instead. That minimises the chance of the outcome being labelled as underhanded in some way (although I'm not naive enough to think it won't get such criticism to some degree, regardless). What charges do be try him under? And who wants to bring them forward? Can we do it under the joint CRS and Cabinet?
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
The logical charge would be treason, particularly "aiding any entity in which the Coalition is taking defensive action against." The argument being that listing Empire in the PGO law is a defensive action against them.
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