Seraph, I have been reluctant to discuss this because:
1. Belschaft breaking laws or doing underhanded things is a consistent issue for TSP.
2. People, including myself, have advocated for forgiveness or pardons but the players don't seem to change their colors.
3. Considering what happened in Osiris with the Empire takeover, it seems highly unlikely that we would want to welcome Empire in the region and open ourselves up to a hostile takeover.
4. Already there is a heavy foreign presence in the region.
5. I am tired of engaging against people who do underhanded things and get away with it and the region is highly inconsistent in this regard.

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
Delegate | Vice Delegate 
Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
~ The Sparkly One ~

My Pinterest

 

(This post was last modified: 02-23-2017, 07:38 PM by Escade.)

Reply

The logical charge would be treason, particularly "aiding any entity in which the Coalition is taking defensive action against." The argument being that listing Empire in the PGO law is a defensive action against them.

So, not to throw cold water on this idea, but I feel like this argument is flimsy. I mean, I get where you're coming from Glen, but I think we'd have a serious issue proving her was aiding the Empire. I feel like treason would be something we'd really have to do *after* the fact to be sure we'd get a conviction.

Not to mention, the pool would be from random justices ... so ... I'm not sold on it. Although, the court case would likely make Bel politically radioactive (again) so ... there's that.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

Reply

Seraph, I have been reluctant to discuss this because:
1. Belschaft breaking laws or doing underhanded things is a consistent issue for TSP.
2. People, including myself, have advocated for forgiveness or pardons but the players don't seem to change their colors.
3. Considering what happened in Osiris with the Empire takeover, it seems highly unlikely that we would want to welcome Empire in the region and open ourselves up to a hostile takeover.
4. Already there is a heavy foreign presence in the region.
5. I am tired of engaging against people who do underhanded things and get away with it and the region is highly inconsistent in this regard.

Those all sound like arguments for action.

The logical charge would be treason, particularly "aiding any entity in which the Coalition is taking defensive action against." The argument being that listing Empire in the PGO law is a defensive action against them.

So, not to throw cold water on this idea, but I feel like this argument is flimsy. I mean, I get where you're coming from Glen, but I think we'd have a serious issue proving her was aiding the Empire. I feel like treason would be something we'd really have to do *after* the fact to be sure we'd get a conviction.

Not to mention, the pool would be from random justices ... so ... I'm not sold on it. Although, the court case would likely make Bel politically radioactive (again) so ... there's that.

Those are my fears also. I completely get where Glen is coming from about there never being a smoking gun, but at the same time what we've got, substantial though it might be, kinda seems insubstantial when put into any context where we might use it without seeming 'oligarchic'. :/

Basically, I don't know what we should do and so should defer to the judgement of those better qualified, but I don't want to seem like I'm washing my hands of this. I will own and support whatever is decided. Nor do I want to seem like I'm copping out, so I'll remain active in the discussion where I can.

Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond!

Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

Reply

@tsu: I agree that we have little *firm* recourse here. And that's a huge problem. That's why I've insisted on whatever we do being a joint CRS/Cabinet venture. We all know that grey areas are less grey when everybody is on board.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reply

Barring any further recusals the three valid pool justices are (in order) Feirmont, Frost and Ryccia. Anyone after that would have to be appointed by me and the Cabinet.

Reply

Barring any further recusals the three valid pool justices are (in order) Feirmont, Frost and Ryccia. Anyone after that would have to be appointed by me and the Cabinet.

I mean ... idk if the Cabinet could really appointment someone since they're all here.

And @Glen -- true.  Perhaps tossing this to the Assembly is the thing to do.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

Reply

I think we should either send it to the assembly, or go for a trial. I don't think it would be a good idea to make a very shaky security threat declaration, not since we have no reason to believe anything is going to happen suddenly. We've waited a while to do anything, we can afford to wait a little longer to properly deal with him.

Hello

Hello

Reply

The only issue is that we need to be prepared for a contingency. It's our responsibility to ensure the security of the community, not the Assembly's or the High Court's. If the political process doesn't respond adequately, or a trial goes nowhere due to unreasonably high evidentiary standards, that doesn't mean Bel suddenly stops talking to NK and Empire suddenly reverses course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reply

The only issue is that we need to be prepared for a contingency. It's our responsibility to ensure the security of the community, not the Assembly's or the High Court's. If the political process doesn't respond adequately, or a trial goes nowhere due to unreasonably high evidentiary standards, that doesn't mean Bel suddenly stops talking to NK and Empire suddenly reverses course.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think we cross that bridge if we get to it. Let's assume that the Assembly will be adequately outraged and, if not, we'll just have to prod it along. We have a good deal of the leaders in this discussion (and have more concerned about this), so I imagine we and can leverage that to action if needed.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

Reply

Sounds good to me. I do think it's more likely than not that somebody outside this discussion will end up wanting to do a trial.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reply